Comments on: Fixing Health Care I: The Uninsured http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/ ...explorations in complex adaptive systems... Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:30:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-7205 Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:17:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-7205 [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...] [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3863 Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:24:07 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3863 [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...] [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3131 Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:00:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3131 [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...] [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...]

]]> By: The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2995 The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:05:58 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2995 [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...] [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...]

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2792 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:22:51 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2792 You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources: http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369 http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634 You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007: http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6 Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%--people making at least 3.0K. So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K. You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources:

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634

You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007:

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%–people making at least 3.0K.

So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2791 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:10:42 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2791 Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)? Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)?

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2789 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:49:20 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2789 I think you've done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that's slightly more than 1% of their income. Which is just about what I'm willing to pay too. I think you’ve done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that’s slightly more than 1% of their income.

Which is just about what I’m willing to pay too.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2788 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:16:39 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2788 You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let's normalize the equation. I'm saying that it's going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family's income. So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don't think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let’s normalize the equation. I’m saying that it’s going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family’s income.

So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don’t think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2787 kevindick Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:43:13 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2787 A couple of points: - Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the "major" coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It's supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I'm reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00. - Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured? - My goal is not to cover all the poor's primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure. - I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That's _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I'm down. A couple of points:

- Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the “major” coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It’s supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I’m reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00.

- Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured?

- My goal is not to cover all the poor’s primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure.

- I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That’s _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I’m down.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/ ...explorations in complex adaptive systems... Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:30:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 Comments on: Fixing Health Care I: The Uninsured http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/ ...explorations in complex adaptive systems... Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:30:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-7205 Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:17:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-7205 [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...] [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3863 Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:24:07 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3863 [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...] [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3131 Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:00:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3131 [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...] [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...]

]]> By: The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2995 The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:05:58 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2995 [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...] [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...]

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2792 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:22:51 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2792 You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources: http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369 http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634 You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007: http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6 Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%--people making at least 3.0K. So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K. You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources:

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634

You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007:

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%–people making at least 3.0K.

So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2791 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:10:42 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2791 Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)? Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)?

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2789 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:49:20 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2789 I think you've done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that's slightly more than 1% of their income. Which is just about what I'm willing to pay too. I think you’ve done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that’s slightly more than 1% of their income.

Which is just about what I’m willing to pay too.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2788 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:16:39 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2788 You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let's normalize the equation. I'm saying that it's going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family's income. So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don't think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let’s normalize the equation. I’m saying that it’s going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family’s income.

So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don’t think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2787 kevindick Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:43:13 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2787 A couple of points: - Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the "major" coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It's supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I'm reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00. - Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured? - My goal is not to cover all the poor's primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure. - I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That's _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I'm down. A couple of points:

- Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the “major” coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It’s supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I’m reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00.

- Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured?

- My goal is not to cover all the poor’s primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure.

- I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That’s _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I’m down.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-7205 Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:17:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-7205 [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...] [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...]

]]> Comments on: Fixing Health Care I: The Uninsured http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/ ...explorations in complex adaptive systems... Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:30:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-7205 Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:17:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-7205 [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...] [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3863 Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:24:07 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3863 [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...] [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3131 Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:00:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3131 [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...] [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...]

]]> By: The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2995 The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:05:58 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2995 [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...] [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...]

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2792 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:22:51 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2792 You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources: http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369 http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634 You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007: http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6 Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%--people making at least 3.0K. So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K. You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources:

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634

You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007:

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%–people making at least 3.0K.

So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2791 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:10:42 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2791 Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)? Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)?

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2789 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:49:20 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2789 I think you've done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that's slightly more than 1% of their income. Which is just about what I'm willing to pay too. I think you’ve done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that’s slightly more than 1% of their income.

Which is just about what I’m willing to pay too.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2788 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:16:39 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2788 You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let's normalize the equation. I'm saying that it's going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family's income. So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don't think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let’s normalize the equation. I’m saying that it’s going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family’s income.

So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don’t think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2787 kevindick Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:43:13 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2787 A couple of points: - Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the "major" coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It's supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I'm reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00. - Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured? - My goal is not to cover all the poor's primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure. - I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That's _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I'm down. A couple of points:

- Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the “major” coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It’s supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I’m reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00.

- Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured?

- My goal is not to cover all the poor’s primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure.

- I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That’s _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I’m down.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3863 Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:24:07 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3863 [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...] [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...]

]]> Comments on: Fixing Health Care I: The Uninsured http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/ ...explorations in complex adaptive systems... Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:30:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-7205 Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:17:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-7205 [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...] [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3863 Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:24:07 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3863 [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...] [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3131 Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:00:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3131 [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...] [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...]

]]> By: The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2995 The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:05:58 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2995 [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...] [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...]

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2792 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:22:51 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2792 You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources: http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369 http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634 You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007: http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6 Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%--people making at least 3.0K. So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K. You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources:

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634

You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007:

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%–people making at least 3.0K.

So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2791 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:10:42 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2791 Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)? Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)?

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2789 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:49:20 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2789 I think you've done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that's slightly more than 1% of their income. Which is just about what I'm willing to pay too. I think you’ve done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that’s slightly more than 1% of their income.

Which is just about what I’m willing to pay too.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2788 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:16:39 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2788 You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let's normalize the equation. I'm saying that it's going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family's income. So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don't think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let’s normalize the equation. I’m saying that it’s going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family’s income.

So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don’t think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2787 kevindick Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:43:13 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2787 A couple of points: - Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the "major" coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It's supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I'm reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00. - Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured? - My goal is not to cover all the poor's primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure. - I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That's _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I'm down. A couple of points:

- Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the “major” coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It’s supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I’m reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00.

- Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured?

- My goal is not to cover all the poor’s primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure.

- I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That’s _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I’m down.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3131 Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:00:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3131 [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...] [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...]

]]> Comments on: Fixing Health Care I: The Uninsured http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/ ...explorations in complex adaptive systems... Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:30:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-7205 Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:17:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-7205 [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...] [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3863 Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:24:07 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3863 [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...] [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3131 Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:00:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3131 [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...] [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...]

]]> By: The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2995 The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:05:58 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2995 [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...] [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...]

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2792 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:22:51 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2792 You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources: http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369 http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634 You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007: http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6 Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%--people making at least 3.0K. So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K. You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources:

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634

You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007:

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%–people making at least 3.0K.

So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2791 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:10:42 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2791 Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)? Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)?

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2789 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:49:20 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2789 I think you've done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that's slightly more than 1% of their income. Which is just about what I'm willing to pay too. I think you’ve done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that’s slightly more than 1% of their income.

Which is just about what I’m willing to pay too.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2788 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:16:39 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2788 You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let's normalize the equation. I'm saying that it's going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family's income. So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don't think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let’s normalize the equation. I’m saying that it’s going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family’s income.

So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don’t think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2787 kevindick Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:43:13 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2787 A couple of points: - Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the "major" coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It's supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I'm reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00. - Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured? - My goal is not to cover all the poor's primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure. - I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That's _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I'm down. A couple of points:

- Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the “major” coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It’s supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I’m reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00.

- Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured?

- My goal is not to cover all the poor’s primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure.

- I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That’s _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I’m down.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2995 The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:05:58 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2995 [...] raise $100B to $200B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount ($63B to [...] [...] raise $100B to $200B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount ($63B to [...]

]]> Comments on: Fixing Health Care I: The Uninsured http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/ ...explorations in complex adaptive systems... Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:30:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-7205 Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:17:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-7205 [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...] [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3863 Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:24:07 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3863 [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...] [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3131 Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:00:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3131 [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...] [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...]

]]> By: The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2995 The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:05:58 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2995 [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...] [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...]

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2792 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:22:51 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2792 You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources: http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369 http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634 You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007: http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6 Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%--people making at least 3.0K. So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K. You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources:

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634

You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007:

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%–people making at least 3.0K.

So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2791 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:10:42 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2791 Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)? Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)?

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2789 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:49:20 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2789 I think you've done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that's slightly more than 1% of their income. Which is just about what I'm willing to pay too. I think you’ve done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that’s slightly more than 1% of their income.

Which is just about what I’m willing to pay too.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2788 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:16:39 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2788 You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let's normalize the equation. I'm saying that it's going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family's income. So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don't think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let’s normalize the equation. I’m saying that it’s going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family’s income.

So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don’t think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2787 kevindick Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:43:13 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2787 A couple of points: - Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the "major" coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It's supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I'm reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00. - Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured? - My goal is not to cover all the poor's primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure. - I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That's _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I'm down. A couple of points:

- Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the “major” coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It’s supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I’m reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00.

- Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured?

- My goal is not to cover all the poor’s primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure.

- I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That’s _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I’m down.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2792 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:22:51 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2792 You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources: http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369 http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634 You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007: http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6 Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%--people making at least $113.0K. So according to these most recent numbers, about $90B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over $100K. You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources:

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634

You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007:

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%–people making at least $113.0K.

So according to these most recent numbers, about $90B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over $100K.

]]> Comments on: Fixing Health Care I: The Uninsured http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/ ...explorations in complex adaptive systems... Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:30:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-7205 Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:17:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-7205 [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...] [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3863 Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:24:07 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3863 [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...] [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3131 Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:00:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3131 [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...] [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...]

]]> By: The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2995 The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:05:58 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2995 [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...] [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...]

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2792 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:22:51 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2792 You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources: http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369 http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634 You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007: http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6 Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%--people making at least 3.0K. So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K. You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources:

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634

You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007:

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%–people making at least 3.0K.

So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2791 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:10:42 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2791 Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)? Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)?

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2789 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:49:20 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2789 I think you've done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that's slightly more than 1% of their income. Which is just about what I'm willing to pay too. I think you’ve done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that’s slightly more than 1% of their income.

Which is just about what I’m willing to pay too.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2788 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:16:39 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2788 You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let's normalize the equation. I'm saying that it's going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family's income. So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don't think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let’s normalize the equation. I’m saying that it’s going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family’s income.

So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don’t think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2787 kevindick Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:43:13 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2787 A couple of points: - Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the "major" coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It's supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I'm reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00. - Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured? - My goal is not to cover all the poor's primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure. - I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That's _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I'm down. A couple of points:

- Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the “major” coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It’s supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I’m reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00.

- Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured?

- My goal is not to cover all the poor’s primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure.

- I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That’s _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I’m down.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2791 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:10:42 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2791 Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)? Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)?

]]> Comments on: Fixing Health Care I: The Uninsured http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/ ...explorations in complex adaptive systems... Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:30:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-7205 Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:17:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-7205 [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...] [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3863 Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:24:07 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3863 [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...] [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3131 Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:00:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3131 [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...] [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...]

]]> By: The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2995 The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:05:58 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2995 [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...] [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...]

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2792 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:22:51 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2792 You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources: http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369 http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634 You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007: http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6 Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%--people making at least 3.0K. So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K. You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources:

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634

You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007:

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%–people making at least 3.0K.

So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2791 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:10:42 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2791 Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)? Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)?

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2789 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:49:20 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2789 I think you've done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that's slightly more than 1% of their income. Which is just about what I'm willing to pay too. I think you’ve done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that’s slightly more than 1% of their income.

Which is just about what I’m willing to pay too.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2788 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:16:39 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2788 You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let's normalize the equation. I'm saying that it's going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family's income. So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don't think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let’s normalize the equation. I’m saying that it’s going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family’s income.

So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don’t think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2787 kevindick Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:43:13 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2787 A couple of points: - Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the "major" coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It's supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I'm reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00. - Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured? - My goal is not to cover all the poor's primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure. - I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That's _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I'm down. A couple of points:

- Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the “major” coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It’s supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I’m reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00.

- Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured?

- My goal is not to cover all the poor’s primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure.

- I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That’s _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I’m down.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2789 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:49:20 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2789 I think you've done your math wrong. People making between $30K and $60K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay $15B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. $15B/27.5M = ~$550. Given the midpoint of the income range is $45K, that's slightly more than 1% of their income. Which is just about what I'm willing to pay too. I think you’ve done your math wrong. People making between $30K and $60K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay $15B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. $15B/27.5M = ~$550. Given the midpoint of the income range is $45K, that’s slightly more than 1% of their income.

Which is just about what I’m willing to pay too.

]]> Comments on: Fixing Health Care I: The Uninsured http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/ ...explorations in complex adaptive systems... Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:30:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-7205 Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:17:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-7205 [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...] [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3863 Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:24:07 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3863 [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...] [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3131 Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:00:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3131 [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...] [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...]

]]> By: The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2995 The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:05:58 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2995 [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...] [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...]

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2792 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:22:51 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2792 You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources: http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369 http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634 You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007: http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6 Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%--people making at least 3.0K. So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K. You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources:

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634

You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007:

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%–people making at least 3.0K.

So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2791 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:10:42 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2791 Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)? Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)?

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2789 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:49:20 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2789 I think you've done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that's slightly more than 1% of their income. Which is just about what I'm willing to pay too. I think you’ve done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that’s slightly more than 1% of their income.

Which is just about what I’m willing to pay too.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2788 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:16:39 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2788 You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let's normalize the equation. I'm saying that it's going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family's income. So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don't think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let’s normalize the equation. I’m saying that it’s going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family’s income.

So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don’t think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2787 kevindick Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:43:13 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2787 A couple of points: - Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the "major" coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It's supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I'm reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00. - Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured? - My goal is not to cover all the poor's primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure. - I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That's _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I'm down. A couple of points:

- Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the “major” coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It’s supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I’m reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00.

- Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured?

- My goal is not to cover all the poor’s primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure.

- I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That’s _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I’m down.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2788 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:16:39 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2788 You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let's normalize the equation. I'm saying that it's going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family's income. So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don't think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let’s normalize the equation. I’m saying that it’s going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family’s income.

So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don’t think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr

]]> Comments on: Fixing Health Care I: The Uninsured http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/ ...explorations in complex adaptive systems... Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:30:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-7205 Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:17:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-7205 [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...] [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3863 Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:24:07 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3863 [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...] [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3131 Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:00:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3131 [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...] [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...]

]]> By: The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2995 The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:05:58 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2995 [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...] [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...]

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2792 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:22:51 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2792 You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources: http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369 http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634 You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007: http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6 Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%--people making at least 3.0K. So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K. You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources:

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634

You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007:

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%–people making at least 3.0K.

So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2791 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:10:42 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2791 Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)? Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)?

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2789 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:49:20 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2789 I think you've done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that's slightly more than 1% of their income. Which is just about what I'm willing to pay too. I think you’ve done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that’s slightly more than 1% of their income.

Which is just about what I’m willing to pay too.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2788 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:16:39 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2788 You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let's normalize the equation. I'm saying that it's going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family's income. So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don't think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let’s normalize the equation. I’m saying that it’s going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family’s income.

So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don’t think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2787 kevindick Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:43:13 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2787 A couple of points: - Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the "major" coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It's supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I'm reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00. - Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured? - My goal is not to cover all the poor's primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure. - I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That's _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I'm down. A couple of points:

- Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the “major” coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It’s supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I’m reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00.

- Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured?

- My goal is not to cover all the poor’s primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure.

- I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That’s _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I’m down.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2787 kevindick Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:43:13 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2787 A couple of points: - Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the "major" coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It's supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I'm reasonably confident we could get the cost down to $1500. - Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured? - My goal is not to cover all the poor's primary needs. People making $25-50K a year can afford some. $300/yr is an average figure. - I already said I was willing to pay $2K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay $20K. That's _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs $3K a year for insurance and $600/yr for HSA per person, I'm down. A couple of points:

- Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the “major” coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It’s supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I’m reasonably confident we could get the cost down to $1500.

- Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured?

- My goal is not to cover all the poor’s primary needs. People making $25-50K a year can afford some. $300/yr is an average figure.

- I already said I was willing to pay $2K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay $20K. That’s _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs $3K a year for insurance and $600/yr for HSA per person, I’m down.

]]> Comments on: Fixing Health Care I: The Uninsured http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/ ...explorations in complex adaptive systems... Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:30:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-7205 Quest for Insurance Part I: The Search « The Emergent Fool Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:17:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-7205 [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...] [...] you may recall, I previously posted about my recommendations for fixing health care (Part I, Part II, Part III). Recently, I had to navigate the current system and thought I’d share my [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3863 Fixing Health Care III: Hospitals « The Emergent Fool Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:24:07 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3863 [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...] [...] addressed the uninsured and doctor’s visits, the next health care problem on my list is hospital spending. It [...]

]]> By: Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-3131 Fixing Health Care II: Doctor’s Visits « The Emergent Fool Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:00:26 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-3131 [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...] [...] that we’ve solved the problem of the uninsured, it’s time to move on to the problem of doctor’s visits. Spending on physician and [...]

]]> By: The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2995 The Climate or the Uninsured? « The Emergent Fool Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:05:58 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2995 [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...] [...] raise 0B to 0B a year in taxes. Those taxes come from us one way or another. Recall that my estimate of the cost to cover the uninsured is about 2/3rds of that amount (B to [...]

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2792 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 06:22:51 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2792 You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources: http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369 http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634 You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007: http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6 Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%--people making at least 3.0K. So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K. You have to remember that the rich pay most of the income taxes in the US. I was using these sources:

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/22213369

http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/13403634

You can do the calculation. The important thing to see is that 85% of all tax dollars come from the top 25% in income. Now, those numbers are a couple years out of date, from tax year 2004. The latest numbers I could find are from tax year 2007:

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

Note that the situation has become slightly more skewed towards the rich paying taxes: 87% of all tax dollars came from the top 25%. And 71% come from the top 10%–people making at least 3.0K.

So according to these most recent numbers, about B of the total cost would come from these relatively wealthy households making well over 0K.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2791 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 05:10:42 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2791 Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)? Huh? So what is the tax distribution of the rest of the 111B (126B-15B)?

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2789 kevindick Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:49:20 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2789 I think you've done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that's slightly more than 1% of their income. Which is just about what I'm willing to pay too. I think you’ve done your math wrong. People making between K and K (25% of the households) only pay about 12% of the taxes. Doubling my estimate to match your estimate requires total payments of 126B/yr. So this segment would pay B/yr. There are about 110M households in the US, so about 27.5M are in this segment. B/27.5M = ~0. Given the midpoint of the income range is K, that’s slightly more than 1% of their income.

Which is just about what I’m willing to pay too.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2788 Marissa Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:16:39 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2788 You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let's normalize the equation. I'm saying that it's going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family's income. So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don't think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr You are willing to pay an extra 2k/yr to have universal coverage as a top 5% wage earner. But let’s normalize the equation. I’m saying that it’s going to cost an extra 2k per average family of 4 people. The median wage is about 60k if you were eliminate the bottom 50MM people. That represents about 3.3% of the average family’s income.

So the real question is are you willing to pay an extra 3-4% of your income for universal health care? I don’t think it would be fair to have a family making 40k/yr paying the same extra 2k/yr for universal coverage as someone making 200k/yr

]]> By: kevindick http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2787 kevindick Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:43:13 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2787 A couple of points: - Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the "major" coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It's supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I'm reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00. - Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured? - My goal is not to cover all the poor's primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure. - I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That's _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I'm down. A couple of points:

- Recall that my Major Medical plan is substantially more frugal than a typical commercial policy. No primary care at all is covered (it appears many commercial ones do cover some for ordinary doctor visits). Moreover, all the “major” coverage is for what I would term a very generic standard of care. It’s supposed to be less attractive than private insurance. I’m reasonably confident we could get the cost down to 00.

- Do you have any evidence on the incidence of chronic illness among the poor and uninsured?

- My goal is not to cover all the poor’s primary needs. People making -50K a year can afford some. 0/yr is an average figure.

- I already said I was willing to pay K/yr. So over your 10 year timeframe, I would be willing to pay K. That’s _twice_ my estimate of the cost. So even if it costs K a year for insurance and 0/yr for HSA per person, I’m down.

]]> By: Marissa http://emergentfool.com/2009/09/08/fixing-health-care-i-the-uninsured/#comment-2785 Marissa Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:58:44 +0000 http://emergentfool.com/?p=2145#comment-2785 i meant an extra 7500-10k/yr for universal health care at a 250k level of income. i meant an extra 7500-10k/yr for universal health care at a 250k level of income.

]]>